posting meld when under 20

[rdwrites]

I think that requiring the same skills as real life is important, and for Rating, very important, in replicating the game experience.
I just don''t think it's realistic to lay meld cards down on the table and say tell me how much meld I have, other than for rank amateurs learning the game who have got to the point of identifying meld patterns and laying the cards but unsure what the values would be even with a table of meld values. Surely this would be a fleeting few hands if at all.
I have a learners version mode which is free and simulates playing cards down game commonly used when teaching a new player. Meld is identified and shown to you in learners version (along with other info) but a learners version game which can be played at any time does not contribute to Rating.
If meld input is less than what they have I don't assume anything about why it's less, whether they missed something or assigned wrong values or made a mistake adding. They didn't realize full value of their hand and it will hamper them in trying to score as much as possible and win, both of which are what Rating is based on (winning percentage and margin of wins/losses).
If they input 22 and when meld display is done it shows they have such and such and a total of 26, they can see it's more than they counted and what they missed, but only 22 is used in scoring. It's a little stricter than real life where if you lay down the meld your partner if not someone else will add up the values for you and maybe that makes more sense in online multi-player, where you check off what you have and the values are determined and added up for you. But not so much Rating players against each other.

[rakbeater]

I would say Yahoo was the internet standard of pinochle when it was still offering pinochle. If your team did not have 20 meld between each other, No meld was shown. I've never heard of any rule that forces a player to show meld if they don't have a combined 20.

[rdwrites]

yeah, agreed.

[marya]

(10-15-2015, 02:32 PM)rakbeater Wrote:  I would say Yahoo was the internet standard of pinochle when it was still offering pinochle.  If your team did not have 20 meld between each other,  No meld was shown.  I've never heard of any rule that forces a player to show meld if they don't have a combined 20.

That is very interesting to hear, and I'm inclined to feel that I should change the way that this is done now at World of Card Games. I just had no idea.

[marya]

(10-15-2015, 03:35 AM)mickmackusa Wrote:  Handling the erroneous meld unit "guessing":
If I was the boss, I would allow players to select from a list of possible meld units.  This could be as compact as the Scorechart grid at my Meld Calculator.  Just let users click on the relevant cell which highlights the cell (click it again to toggle it off again).  Then when they have selected all of the meld units they wish to table, they click some kind of "Submit Meld" button.  If they have incorrectly highlighted a cell which they don't actually have cards for, then they get an uninformative warning and a second chance.  If they get it wrong twice, then they get 0 meld points -- WHAMMIE!  On the other hand, if they missed the opportunity to highlight a cell which they do have cards for, then bullet-foot.

Never having played offline, I feel like this must not properly mimic offline play - ??

In person, do you say what your meld is before you table the cards - "I have double kings around"? Or do you just say how many meld points you have?

Example: I have 1 Kings around, but during the bidding, I make a mistake and think I have double Kings around. So when it comes time to display meld, I say I have 80! I do not say, "I have double kings around", do I? Then I go to lay down 8 Kings, but it turns out I have just the 4 Kings, and I say "oops" and ... what happens then? Aside from people yelling at me, Is everything okay, the score is just computed with 8 points as my contribution? Or - is our team penalized in some way?

[rdwrites]

what happens is that mistake (whether mistaking too much meld or missing meld) translates into making bad decisions in bidding. The player will bid as if they have 80+ meld and probably indicate it to partner who will bid as if they got 80 meld bid from partner, and bid too high to win the bid. Then when declaring meld occurs partner lays down Kings Around and they could even be boardset, needing to pull more than 50.
After bidding, whether one says a number is fleeting and voluntary, only if unsure team has 20. Usually one or other says we're on and starts laying down their meld.
But your scenario is basically correct, a number is realistic.

[marya]

So in real life, a player who misidentifies the meld in their hand is not actually punished according to the rules - except via shooting their team in the foot. Then it seems wrong to do so online, or in any computerized version. I'm not referring to your game, rdwrites, I'm just balking at Mick's suggestion for handling of erroneous meld units.

[rakbeater]

In live play if you have less than 20 meld you ask your partner what they have or ask if they have X meld (which combined with your meld would total 20). Obviously if over 20, then you table the meld, but you are not allowed to say, I have aces around, do you have another 10 meld?

Online, it is a simple calculation....if it is 20 meld, they are shown, if it is less than it isn't shown. KISS principle.

[rdwrites]

the timing is a little different marya (concerning multi-player online). What's being discussed is equivalent of declaring (laying down) meld.
In real life cards are laid down. Online (and I don't know how handled in various games) there is the suggested checking off of various melds where if you don't check off a meld you missed it. This is realistic. Checking it off is equivalent of laying the meld cards down, and in real life players are going to count it and scorekeeper write it down, there's nothing to get wrong, nothing to penalize.
The valuing meld mistake will be earlier silently and be reflected in overbidding or underbidding based on overcounting or missing. So again the online game is same as real life.
I thought mick's comment was more directed to comparison of entering a number which I do in Rating and I guess other games count for you automatically so no entry at all from what I'm reading here. I'm not sure how you handle it.