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Request for Meld Test
#1
(07-22-2013, 01:57 AM)Xerophthalmia Wrote:  Be cool if meld test gave a time even with mistakes.
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#2
(07-22-2013, 02:16 AM)mickmackusa Wrote:  rakbeater and I talked this point over when we designed it. Our conclusion was that speed is irrelevant if you aren't counting meld accurately.

I can tell you that your Times are averaging in the 120 seconds range; this is good and fast.

I could be convinced to change the program to always reveal the Time, if there is enough support for it.

p.s. I feel the current setup adds to the irritation and addictiveness of the test.
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#3
Nice job on this mick. I find that know my time was good and missing a hand by a couple meld really ticks me off. Perfect.

That's "knowing" sorry
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#4
(07-27-2013, 10:18 AM)Xerophthalmia Wrote:  Nice job on this mick. I find that know my time was good and missing a hand by a couple meld really ticks me off. Perfect.

That's "knowing" sorry


Thanks for you request.

p.s. I felt your recent agony... the Meld Test where you blazed it in 101 seconds, only to find out that the only meld you got wrong was not noticing the double aces around and typing in 10. Brutal!
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
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#5
Hmm...

I see a possibly useful piece of summary information. What's your success rate at counting meld correctly? That seems straightfoward. It'd be nice to work through things to see what melds you miss most often (altho the rare cases like double aces won't occur often enough to be statistically meaningful) but that's tricky, since there's often multiple meld units. (And of course, the variant tables make life even messier.)

It may be that the perceived time pressure (wanting to do it quickly) actually increases the error rate, tho. But time's not critical, except when you're in 1st seat...even in 2nd seat, you usually have a few seconds before 1st seat bids.
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#6
(07-30-2013, 12:38 AM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  I see a possibly useful piece of summary information. What's your success rate at counting meld correctly?

I can provide a success rate which is private to each respective member (like the personal history table), but I don't want people to be worried about failure rate. If so, I think people will play less. MY intention is to provide a cool little game that people can have fun with and train on; not a competition where egos are on the line.

(07-30-2013, 12:38 AM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  It'd be nice to work through things to see what melds you miss most often (altho the rare cases like double aces won't occur often enough to be statistically meaningful) but that's tricky, since there's often multiple meld units. (And of course, the variant tables make life even messier.)

If there was a way to identify which meld unit was being missed, I would love to show it, but with a single input field holding an integer -- it is impossible to derive where the points are coming from. Did the player miss two marriages? or a royal marriage? or a pinochle? or jacks around? or miscounted the queens around value?
Some hands it could be deduced, but most not.

(07-30-2013, 12:38 AM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  It may be that the perceived time pressure (wanting to do it quickly) actually increases the error rate, tho. But time's not critical, except when you're in 1st seat...even in 2nd seat, you usually have a few seconds before 1st seat bids.

The Time is to add challenge to a process where perfection would ultimately become too easy. Without Time I don't think the game would be very fun/interesting either. Time also verifies for players whether the Yahoo hecklers are right (player can't count very fast) or just being idiots (player can count with reasonable speed/accuracy).

I might try to teach my tween-aged step-son to play pinochle soon. I might show him how to count meld @ the Meld page, until he can confidently/successfully count meld. Then I'll show him the Test page. When he can score a perfect test under an arbitrary time limit, I'll tell him that he is ready to learn/play pinochle with grown ups.

These steps I have suggested using on my step-son, are part of a bigger plan I have. I would like to build up a series of similar Learn, Practice, and Test pages for all the necessary skills for playing pinochle. Aspects of the game to be covered could include: Meld identifying/counting, Situational Meld Bidding, Situational Control Bidding, Situational Second-Round Play
These are just ideas at the moment, as they are more than simple memorizing & regurgitating; there are several variables involved in testing like: exceptions in play, personal preference, and more.

If we (Admin and members) can create acceptable tests for all aspects of the game, then Power Pinochle can provide a sort of Certification of Competency. This could be a badge of honor or a minimum preference for selecting an online pinochle partner.

Is this all a bit of a pipe dream? Is it as difficult to set up as American socialized healthcare? Well, probably. However, if I shoot for the moon and only land on stars, then all ships rise. ...did I get that right? You know what I mean.
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
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#7
Keeping the success rate private, is probably wise. I view the time factor as step 2...as you suggest. Counting meld is tricky (gads, you should see a co-worker of mine, with a Masters in CS, try to count points in *cribbage*...it's embarassingly bad) and accuracy has to come first. Speed comes with practice.

Bidding tests are probably impractical. First, there's only a few plausible answers for any particular situation, so the choices are rather restricted. Second, a scoring system now becomes probably excessively dependent on the preferences of the test creator/scorer. Maybe you think giving meld is more important...your meld-asking bids either don't have 20+ meld, or have a notably more offensive hand (8 card run instead of 7, or a 2-suiter). The Bridge World has the monthly feature called the Master Solver's Club...they present *tricky* hands, with the auction proceeding up to this point, and it's your turn to bid the hand. They have about 30 panelists submit their answers, and frequently comments, for each problem. The comments are probably the more critical, as they expose the thinking process. That's what lets you compare and contrast, and really think through a situation. Of course, bridge bidding is much more technical and with a much richer language. Another distinction: there's a common frame of reference, Bridge World Standard. It's a system that's been developed and refined through polling experts and readers alike, so yeah, it's something of a committee project and therefore not perfect...but it *does* cover most situations. We've got nothing formal.
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