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Advanced Signaling
#1
(08-01-2013, 04:15 PM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  Not per se. His carding *might*...if he's the type to give signals. Say spades are trumps, and you start with AH,AH. West plays QH,JH. Now, I use that as a signal; I'm telling my partner, I've got BOTH missing heart aces. However, only a small minority understands or uses such a signal.


I never heard of this before. What other advanced signals are there that
I don't know about?

We have a thread about the 2 basic signals thread, but this wasn't included.

Link to the 2 basic signals thread:
http://www.powerpinochle.com/forum/showt...php?tid=70
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#2
(08-01-2013, 04:15 PM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  Not per se. His carding *might*...if he's the type to give signals. Say spades are trumps, and you start with AH,AH. West plays QH,JH. Now, I use that as a signal; I'm telling my partner, I've got BOTH missing heart aces. However, only a small minority understands or uses such a signal.

(08-06-2013, 06:49 PM)rakbeater Wrote:  I never heard of this before. What other advanced signals are there that
I don't know about?

We have a thread about the 2 basic signals thread, but this wasn't included.

Link to the 2 basic signals thread:
http://www.powerpinochle.com/forum/showt...php?tid=70

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the seating (is Partner not West & are You not East?) Otherwise, this is basic signaling right? First AH gets the non-signaling QH and the second AH gets the signaling JH.

If these are plays on the oppositions' AHAH, then it is just basic play on their Aces. Using the oppositions' tricks to communicate to your partner is good stuff. Great if your partner sees it, but maybe not great if the opposition red flags the suit. That's the beauty of throwing cards face-up into the middle -- everybody sees.
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
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#3
I meant 'you' to mean South, declaring the hand. So the signal-reader here would be East. West is showing both missing heart aces in case

a) East gets in when declarer exits
b) If North gets in and cashes his aces, East now knows hearts is a locked suit for the defense.
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#4
I'm so bad at the jack/queen leadbacks. Of course it has been a long time since I've played with players online that do this, but I need to get in the habit.
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#5
That's really all it is...just a bit of discipline, and attention to the hand overall, and actually *thinking* about the cards you're playing, and WHY you would play certain cards in a certain order. Most players are card-tossers. They don't think to look at the cards flying around them, they don't have ANY clue about inferences...so they don't play *their* cards in informative ways. If it works, awesome. If not, it's all Yahoo anyway, right?
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#6
(08-01-2013, 04:15 PM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  Not per se. His carding *might*...if he's the type to give signals. Say spades are trumps, and you start with AH,AH. West plays QH,JH. Now, I use that as a signal; I'm telling my partner, I've got BOTH missing heart aces. However, only a small minority understands or uses such a signal.

Very, Very Advanced Signaling ... As a defender ... if I understand you ToreadorElder!

Just to be clear, South is Declarer, and TE is playing West, with first a Q on South's first Ace, then a J on South's second Ace ...

I'm scratching my head ... Here's why ...
  • West desires to play non-pointers on Declarer Team (NS) Tricks, only options are Qs & Js

  • What if that is all West has 1 Q and 1 J? Or just 2 Js?
Okay, I know, indirect lead-backs are always iffy with no guarantees.

I'm a little confused though TE as to how West's play of QJ signals West has the remaining 2 Aces in that suit.

Even if West does posses both remaining Aces ... West is now "Boss" of that suit the next time it's played ... Why signal? ... South has to play through West first.

More than likely East will be 4th in line to lead and East would have reasonable guesstimate of where all Aces are at that time.

Even if East gets in as second leader, then unless South is Sandbagging more Aces in this suit, East could reasonable expect those remaining suit Aces to be in West or North. East might consider leading a King to possibly draw a Ten from South with hope West has an Ace.

To many possibilities ... I'm done.
Ta!
--FLACKprb
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#7
It's not complex.

I, sitting West, have a choice in how I play my non-counters, and here there's no reason NOT to make that choice meaningful when I can. The 'normal' play would be J first, Q second. But in the uncommon case when I do have the 2 missing aces, I probably do want my partner to know this. So...Q first, J second.

Quote:Even if West does posses both remaining Aces ... West is now "Boss" of that suit the next time it's played ... Why signal? ... South has to play through West first.

IMO, asking "why signal?" is always the wrong thought process. Why NOT signal? There is one reason: South may have been planning to lead a 3rd heart as the best chance to reach North, and the signal suggests that won't work. But we don't know what his plan is, and it may well be that a 3rd heart *is* his best choice. Perhaps you talk him out of it. So IMO that's a wash. But, I always want my partner to have as much information as possible, in order to make an informed, intelligent choice at his turn.

Quote:More than likely East will be 4th in line to lead and East would have reasonable guesstimate of where all Aces are at that time.

Even if East gets in as second leader, then unless South is Sandbagging more Aces in this suit, East could reasonable expect those remaining suit Aces to be in West or North. East might consider leading a King to possibly draw a Ten from South with hope West has an Ace.

And if North doesn't signal on South's second AH, then East has the inference that West usually has *at least* one...whether West signaled or not. But what about 6-8 tricks down the line...who has the 4th? North or West? If it's North, the defense has to consider the potential that South can strip all the trumps, then cross to North to run several heart tricks. (Give North something like AHTHTHKHJHJH. He's played KH and TH on South's aces, and JH on West's. But he's still got 2 certain tricks with AHTH, and the JH *may well become* another trick. East and West have to be discarding something as South plays out all the trumps.) If it's West, continuing hearts may not be a bad idea (to force South to ruff)...but it has risks.

And, why not turn 'maybe' into 'yes'? Why not make the situation clear? Help your partner when you can. Give your partner information when it's useful. This arises in several situations, both in bidding and play. In bidding, one of my pet peeves is (I'm sitting North):

East: pass
Me: 50
West: pass
South: pass...with 30+ meld in hand. "Why bid? It's our hand."

Or conversely, say East passes, and North has something like

ASASKSKSQSJSADKDQDJDACACKCQCJCTHTHKHJHJH

and North just bids 50..not 52...because "I have to give a save bid." NO. Giving 20 is FAR more accurate and informative.
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#8
Another, much more clear-cut Q-J signaling case.

South is declarer in spades, and cashes 2 heart aces as before. Now, tho, West *melds aces*. EAST can signal the 4th ace...Q, then J on South's aces.
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