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Pinochle Rules
#1
http://www.iplay.net/ourgames/pinochle_rules.htm

This is a pretty solid explanation of the rules of the game.
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#2
http://www.pebblecreeksingles.com/images...0rules.pdf

This is a nice pdf file.
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#3
http://bradwilson.typepad.com/games/2009...ochle.html

And another good set of rules.
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#4
NOTE: meld scores are not 100% uniform. The common ones (marriage, run, pinochle, X's around) and the occasionals (double of any of the above) are consistent, I believe, but when you get to the rare triples like triple aces or triple run, they may vary considerably. The one that can/does happen intermittently, a triple pinochle, has at least 3 separate values...it's shown as 60 and 90, but Yahoo only gives 45.
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#5
(07-23-2012, 02:46 PM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  NOTE: meld scores are not 100% uniform. The common ones (marriage, run, pinochle, X's around) and the occasionals (double of any of the above) are consistent, I believe, but when you get to the rare triples like triple aces or triple run, they may vary considerably. The one that can/does happen intermittently, a triple pinochle, has at least 3 separate values...it's shown as 60 and 90, but Yahoo only gives 45.

Pinochle needs standards! If someone was to invite me to play in a poker game, my assumption would be that the game was Texas No Limit Hold'em as it is the version that is most popular. If I had any doubts, I might even ask which type of poker: pot-limit, turbo, hi-lo, etc. Now, I have done virtually no research into the varieties of pinochle, but as far as I know there are no categorical varieties of pinochle that predetermine the bidding and rule sets. I hate having to hash out all the rules with new players; or when the shoe is on the other foot, when I have to ask tens of questions about the rules. Wouldn't life be easier to sit at a table with complete strangers and say "Tonight, we are playing Denver Double-deck Pinochle", everyone nod in acknowledgement, and begin to play. Is it possible to identify the world's most popular styles of pinochle and name them? How many might that be? I am not saying we use names like:
Yahoo Double-deck Pinochle
Iplay Double-deck Pinochle
Pebble Creek Double-deck Pinochle
Brad Wilson Double-deck Pinochle
Jailhouse Double-deck Pinochle (where all the blatantly-cheating bids are allowed)
ToreadorElder Double-deck Pinochle
, but mainstream rule sets should be solidified.
Careful consideration in naming the versions might improve interest in pinochle.
If you are going to try to build something, the first step is a solid base(s).
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
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#6
98% of the rules *are* standard; the play rules are standard, and most of the meld values are standard. Note that the triple pinochle is probably the ONLY one you're ever likely to see; someone did an analysis showing triple aces around has a probability of about 1 in 3,000,000. Triple run is worse.

The one variant I know of, is whether to pass cards or not. That's RADICALLY different, as now the bidding system has to be geared to trump signals, and the game becomes making those double runs from the pass. I'm biased, but IMO it stops being anything close to a serious card game.

And typically it doesn't matter (assuming no card passing). Got a triple pinochle? Even on Yahoo, where it's only 45, that's going to be the dominant meld. Yes, I have seen (ONCE) 2 double runs dealt, one to each side. And sure, you could see triple pino vs. double kings, but it's wildly unlikely.

It's just not that big a deal. If you're playing at home, use whichever meld table suits your fancy; I actually don't mind toning down the values for the rare sequences, as those single huge scores, when they do arise, tend to be game-enders. If you're playing online, then of course the system will know. And playing in a live tournament, check the meld tables they'll have as part of the tournament rules. As long as just the meld values vary slightly, and only in very low-frequency cases, then it doesn't affect the system structure.

Oh, and BTW, if you're gonna play poker, you'd *better* ask what the rules are. Hold'em might be the most common, but several others are also common. Then, there's house rules; one of the players that ultimately made the final table at the WSOP main event a couple years ago, ran afoul of a betting rule on the river and was forced to sit out for 10 minutes.
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#7
(07-24-2012, 11:45 AM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  98% of the rules *are* standard; the play rules are standard, and most of the meld values are standard. Note that the triple pinochle is probably the ONLY one you're ever likely to see; someone did an analysis showing triple aces around has a probability of about 1 in 3,000,000. Triple run is worse.

The one variant I know of, is whether to pass cards or not. That's RADICALLY different, as now the bidding system has to be geared to trump signals, and the game becomes making those double runs from the pass. I'm biased, but IMO it stops being anything close to a serious card game.

And typically it doesn't matter (assuming no card passing). Got a triple pinochle? Even on Yahoo, where it's only 45, that's going to be the dominant meld. Yes, I have seen (ONCE) 2 double runs dealt, one to each side. And sure, you could see triple pino vs. double kings, but it's wildly unlikely.

It's just not that big a deal. If you're playing at home, use whichever meld table suits your fancy; I actually don't mind toning down the values for the rare sequences, as those single huge scores, when they do arise, tend to be game-enders. If you're playing online, then of course the system will know. And playing in a live tournament, check the meld tables they'll have as part of the tournament rules. As long as just the meld values vary slightly, and only in very low-frequency cases, then it doesn't affect the system structure.

Oh, and BTW, if you're gonna play poker, you'd *better* ask what the rules are. Hold'em might be the most common, but several others are also common. Then, there's house rules; one of the players that ultimately made the final table at the WSOP main event a couple years ago, ran afoul of a betting rule on the river and was forced to sit out for 10 minutes.

That's what I'm talking about. Not having everyone play by one standard allows for potential mishaps. The game would be improved if it was clear and streamlined. I have played single, double, and triple-deck. The probability of seeing double, triple, and quadruple meld increases in triple-deck. I would just like to see spreadsheets for all varieties of pinochle detailing:
1. meld values (including all possible occurrences, even if it is 1 in 9,000,000,000,000, for the sake of completeness)
2. standard rules (passing and non-passing; single, double, triple-deck)
3. Least important, I am curious of all the different amendments and house-rules that people have ever played.

Perhaps a new thread to separate standardized rules and non-standardized rules.
It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing all your life. -- Mickey Mantle
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#8
Could this be a start?

http://www.powerpinochle.com/forum/showt...php?tid=31
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#9
Again: for purposes of developing a bidding system and a play philosophy, it doesn't matter. You WILL NOT develop a standardized meld table that will be universally accepted. You don't have the influence...unless you're also a director of something like the American Pinochle Association as well. If so, then this is not the place for that debate. There's a set of rules they used for a formal, with-prizes tournament here:

http://grandprixtournaments.com/sections...nochle.htm

And note that they're promoting a tournament in November, in Cleveland, with a $100 entry fee, and if they get the 'anticipated' (their word) 100 entrants, first prize is $2000. Hey, they're NOT gonna listen to online hacks like us with no reputation.

There are uncommon procedural rules that may not apply in a home game...specifically, taking the bid when you have no marriage at all (yes, one sees this on Yahoo regularly), or taking the bid when, after the meld, you're more than 50 away (ergo can't make it)...both mean you're automatically set AND the other side gets 50. These are, I think, as much as trying to keep the pace going in a multi-round tournament; arguably, neither would be needed in a cash game. There's another rule about what constitutes a legal bid; things like 'save' or '1' instead of 51 are NOT legal, and bar your partner. This is necessary to avoid, in bridge parlance, unauthorized information...essentially, a form of cheating by giving improper information by HOW you bid, instead of WHAT you bid. But that may not really be appropriate for a completely social, casual game.

Insofar as the basic rules go, for a home game just use one of the referenced rules sets and meld tables. If it's online, check their rules; you don't have any flexibility there.

To mickmack: check the Wikipedia article on pinochle for at least an outline on a number of rules variations.

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#10
(07-25-2012, 01:40 AM)ToreadorElder Wrote:  Again: for purposes of developing a bidding system and a play philosophy, it doesn't matter. You WILL NOT develop a standardized meld table that will be universally accepted. You don't have the influence...unless you're also a director of something like the American Pinochle Association as well. If so, then this is not the place for that debate. There's a set of rules they used for a formal, with-prizes tournament here:

http://grandprixtournaments.com/sections...nochle.htm

And note that they're promoting a tournament in November, in Cleveland, with a $100 entry fee, and if they get the 'anticipated' (their word) 100 entrants, first prize is $2000. Hey, they're NOT gonna listen to online hacks like us with no reputation.

There are uncommon procedural rules that may not apply in a home game...specifically, taking the bid when you have no marriage at all (yes, one sees this on Yahoo regularly), or taking the bid when, after the meld, you're more than 50 away (ergo can't make it)...both mean you're automatically set AND the other side gets 50. These are, I think, as much as trying to keep the pace going in a multi-round tournament; arguably, neither would be needed in a cash game. There's another rule about what constitutes a legal bid; things like 'save' or '1' instead of 51 are NOT legal, and bar your partner. This is necessary to avoid, in bridge parlance, unauthorized information...essentially, a form of cheating by giving improper information by HOW you bid, instead of WHAT you bid. But that may not really be appropriate for a completely social, casual game.

Insofar as the basic rules go, for a home game just use one of the referenced rules sets and meld tables. If it's online, check their rules; you don't have any flexibility there.

To mickmack: check the Wikipedia article on pinochle for at least an outline on a number of rules variations.

Where did you get your information about the tournament in November? I would be interested in going, but the only info in the link you provided was the tournament info for 2011. Help me out! It sounds awesome! Have you played in any of these live tournaments?

EDIT: I found the info....it was on another site: http://playpin.org/cleveland/index.html I'll have to post this under live tournaments.


As far as a standard bidding system being universally accepted, no one here is expecting anything to be universally accepted. However, I find over and over again, that people who want to learn how to play the game, or beginners who want to get better, have no place to start. You can find rules to the game on Yahoo or other sites, but there is no "beginner's" or standard bidding system. That is pretty strange for a game where you sit down at a table with a random partner and are supposed to communicate with each other through the bidding. Yet most people seem to know what the bids mean. It is very interesting to me.

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