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Thought I'd copy the below post from Mick over to this Forum and start a discussion...

(03-06-2016, 11:50 AM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]I just came across this pdf online of a club in Arizona that forces a hand to be played out even if the Offense doesn't make 20 or there is no qualifying trump suit.
I guess the Offense is allowed to declare a non-qualifying trump suit if they have no marriages.


Their single deck rules pdf: http://www.grandinfo.com/ResourceCenter/...df&print=1

My thoughts:
  1. In the double deck version, I find it somewhat interesting that there is no meld value for quadruple queens and jacks around. Although it would be a long-shot to get these, I don't see why they wouldn't just follow the same pattern as the other "arounds."
  2. A single roundhouse is worth exactly the same as the individual meld values [i.e., 3 non-trump marriages (6) + 1 trump marriage (4) + kings around (8) + queens around (6) = 24], but you are awarded 20 extra points for a double roundhouse.
  3. The last two lines in the meld table are superfluous. These are simply the sum of the individual meld scores. (I suppose it helps to clarify that you are not awarded an extra 4 points for the trump marriage when it's used in the run - some people might overlook this fact.)
  4. Sun City Grand Double Deck Rules Wrote:If the bid reaches 60 or more, additional bids are in increments of 5 or more.
    If I'm reading that correctly, that implies that you can bid 67 (or some other random number not divisible by 5) if the previous bid were 60. Interesting!
  5. Sun City Grand Pinochle Rules Wrote:If a renege is confirmed, all remaining points go to the non-offending team.
    Remaining points as of which point in the hand? There may be a case where someone reneges early on in the hand but it's not apparent until the last trick.
  6. Sun City Grand Pinochle Rules Wrote:If the non-bidding team reneges, they lose their meld and card count. The bidding team automatically makes their bid. What ever points are left unplayed go to the team that did not renege.
    This is a little confusing as well. Suppose the bidding team bid 60, and had 33 meld. At the time the renege is called, they had taken 20 counters and their opponents had taken 10 - so there are 20 more points to be made. Are these added to the 60 (the bid that was automatically made), or do they just get their meld (33) plus the 20 points they already took (20) plus the 20 remaining points = 73? Also, what happens if the bid were, say, 75 instead of 60? Do they get 73 (the number of points actually involved), 75 (for making their bid), or 95 (their bid plus the 20 remaining points)?

    As an aside, my family always played that the "non-offending team" (as coined by the rules) took all the trick points (25 in the single-deck game I grew up playing) regardless of when the renege is discovered, the offending team didn't get credit for their meld (since they didn't get the necessary 1 point to save their meld), and the non-offending team's fate was determined in the same manner as always - meld plus 25 trick points. (If that was still short of the contract value for the bidding team, they still "went up.")
  7. Three-handed double-deck pinochle? Got me curious!
  8. Sun City Grand Single Deck Rules Wrote:Bidding starts at 16 or more. ... If all pass, the dealer must take the bid at 15.
    My family played the minimum bid to open was 21, and the dealer got it for 20 if everyone passed.
  9. The three-handed single-deck game is different than the version I played. (Check out my family's rules here.)
with regard to the quadruple pinochle, they may have same convention I played by, instant win for quadruple pinochle (although I never saw it in a game).

After some discussion here last summer and looking at some of the meld models, I changed my program from game over to 500 meld.

I don't know if they have any notes on that in pdf but that's my guess what the genesis of no meld for it is.