Power Pinochle Forums

Drawing from the structure of Poker's Hand History Notation, definitive labels for Pinochle variants are required, and a default variant mustn't be assumed.

For instance, Poker has:

• Texas Hold'em
  
• Omaha
  
• Stud
  
• and many more...
  

Pinochle has a rainbow of variants as well, but they as far as I know they are not named using a static convention.

LET'S DO THIS NOW!

Important information to declare in Pinochle includes:

• Number of Players
  
• Number of Decks
  
• Terms of Card Exchange
  
• Terms of Winning Game
  
• are there more?
  

When I look at a Poker Hand History, typically the first line is an obscenely long string of keywords that declare:

1. Game (Poker)
   
2. Variant (Omaha)
   
3. Rules/Conditions (Hi-Lo , Pot-Limit)
   
4. Event (Sit-N-Go)
   
5. Number of Players (18)
   
6. Stakes ($.05 / $.10)
   
7. Site (Poker Stars)
   

All of these terms are absolutely clear -- if they weren't, people would be less inclined to spend their time/money on the games.
Now, I'm not suggesting that the Pinochle Notation should cram all of these values into a single line -- in fact, I am firm against it.
My point is that there needs to be an official name for each recognized variant.
Furthermore, (despite my extreme distaste for them) optional rules in a variant need a succinct declaration.
Let's get the ball rolling by brainstorming a list of variants and optional rules.

I'll start with some suggested keywords:

Players Per Table: "2-Handed", "3-Handed", "4-handed", "5-Handed", "6-Handed", "7-handed", "8-Handed" (Beyond 8-Hand is pretty much just clowning around, I've played 6-Handed and that is a pretty ridiculous departure of the game compared to 4-Handed.)

Decks Per Table: "Single-Deck", "Double-Deck", "Triple-Deck", "Quadruple-Deck"  (that seems like plenty)

Conditions of Victory(not in any order): "500", "250", "100", "5000", "8-Deals", "10-Deals" (this needs to grow and be refined)

Card Exchange: ...I don't know how to begin with this convention.  I am hoping to make declarations about Passing and Kitty

Partner Selection: ... something to do with 5-Handed Pinochle?

And then there are all of the tribal / optional rules: how to handle reneges, sets, and whatever.

Your feedback is appreciated.

I'd recommend including a list of the cards used, in rank order - for example, "ATKQJ." In the single-deck variant I played growing up, 9s are also used. I don't know whether any other variants use the 9s, but to make it clear-cut, it ought to be listed in the variant description.

I think another useful piece of information is whether a kitty is used. Perhaps this could be an optional tag, or perhaps it's not required since it would be covered within the hand histories. Just throwing it out there, because it definitely helps to describe the rules in play.

Lastly (for now), my family played a 3-handed game in which we received a given number of points per hand based on the outcome (as opposed to the actual meld + trick points taken in the hand). As I said in the rules I posted (I don't have time right now to link to the post...maybe I'll edit this one later to include the link), I'm pretty sure my family made up this scoring system. Nonetheless, it might be worth including under "Conditions of Victory."

Some good points TigreLXIX,

An alternative solution is to declare the Deck as the number of cards instead of listing the ranks and quantities.  While it assumes that readers will know which cards are included in certain deck quantities, I think it serve the purpose.

Deck
Single-Deck with 9's
Double-Deck without 9's

I need to know more about the game play of variants with Kitty / Widow.
How many cards might a Kitty have in it?  Is it only ever 3 or 5?
What about variants with a complete Dummy hand dealt out? I've never played one, if there is a variant like this.

We are going to need some official term for your point system if it is to have any chance of being accepted by a wider audience.
Can you explain, or do I need to chase down your rules page?

(03-03-2016, 05:29 AM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]An alternative solution is to declare the Deck as the number of cards instead of listing the ranks and quantities.  While it assumes that readers will know which cards are included in certain deck quantities, I think it serve the purpose.

Deck
Single-Deck with 9's

Code:

Deck 48-card

Double-Deck without 9's

Code:

Deck 80-card

This is a viable solution - but as you said, it depends on the end user's understanding of the deck structure.  I don't think it takes up that much more space to indicate the number of decks and list the card ranks, such as:

Deck
Single-Deck with 9's
Double-Deck without 9's

It is obviously up to the end user to know that for a single-deck game there are actually two copies of each card; but that is one of the fundamental points of the game.

In my opinion, this will eliminate any question as to card orders.  It may make it even easier for a newbie to pick up the game.

(03-03-2016, 05:29 AM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]I need to know more about the game play of variants with Kitty / Widow.
How many cards might a Kitty have in it?  Is it only ever 3 or 5?
What about variants with a complete Dummy hand dealt out?  I've never played one, if there is a variant like this.

I have only ever played with a 3-card kittty, but I have limited experience.  Is it important that this be known to develop specifications?  I don't believe so - the important thing is to have a place for up-front in the variant description, and handle it during the game play.

Regarding the 2-player variant with a "dummy" hand, I also thought of that after I posted last night.  I think this could be handled as a 3-player game with annotation.  I would have to give it more thought as to whether this would be appropriate, or if it would cause confusion.  ("Dummies" don't need to follow suit, don't play trump when they're out of suit, don't participate in the bidding, and don't win tricks - so it may be confusing for someone who hasn't ever played this way.)

(03-03-2016, 05:29 AM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]We are going to need some official term for your point system if it is to have any chance of being accepted by a wider audience.

Yes and no.  After giving this some more thought, this could probably just be handled when declaring the Conditions of Victory.  If the winning score is, say, less than 50 - that implies that the scoring convention is by what I'll call the alternate scoring system.  Without reviewing the specifications, I think this could rather easily be handled within the current specifications.

(03-03-2016, 05:29 AM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]Can you explain, or do I need to chase down your rules page?

Simply put, the score is based solely on the Declarer's ability to make the contract.

• If the Declarer fulfills the contract, (s)he is awarded 2 points.
  
• If the Declarer does not fulfill the contract, (s)he loses 1 point and each opponent is awarded 1 point.