Power Pinochle Forums

I'm copying the below post here because the "Announcements" Forum is only able to be modified by site Administrators.

mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]Can we discuss unique terms for all possible outcomes for Offense and Defense at the conclusion of a hand?

We currently have:

Offense:

   No Trump
   No Board
   Set
   Saved (I wish their was a different term that literally indicates a "satisfying" of the Contract.)

but Defense doesn't get much attention, though it may be useful to acknowledge for statistics.

What do we call it when Defense saves in the Play round?

   Saved is accurate (but I would like to see a unique term for quick querying).
   Saved, in my opinion, suits Defense better than Offense.  But I fear the Offensive term is too well established.

What do we call it when Defense doesn't save in the Play round?

   "Set" doesn't feel accurate (and I want to avoid term overlap).
   Stopped
   Frozen
   Denied
   Zeroed
   Blanked
   Blocked
   etc....

Some times I feel extra bold and want to change tradition with fresh ideas.  So if anyone has any bright ideas on a new group of terms for team outcomes please share.

In response to what it's called when the Defense doesn't save...my first thought was 'Shut out,' but then I thought I didn't like the fact that it was 2 words.  I reviewed the other terms and saw that there are others (namely, 'No Trump' and 'No Board') that are also 2 words; nevertheless, I continued to think about it.  I am not opposed to any of the terms Mick suggests, but another one I thought of (which I kinda like) is 'Held.'

Just my two cents.

"Set" is not accurate. Set, being set, means failing to score what you bid.
I like Blanked, Stopped is good. Denied does not sound like card game term.

"Denied" seems like a good term to describe the consequence of Defense scoring no points due to the Offense failing to satisfy the Contract requirement of a marriage in Trump.

Separately, Defense is entitled to the opportunity to save their meld in a case when Offense fails to supply 20 meld.

Lots to think about here. Some ideas:
I think it takes two words in many cases to differentiate concepts common to both offense and defense such as set and save. At least that's the conclusion I came to after trying to do it with one word.

Offense
boardset (for one of three reasons, no marriage, less than 20 meld, or pulling more than 50)
could be:
boardset marriage
boardset meld
boardset points

set
saved bid
I could propose:
swept bid (for saving bid and stopping defense from saving)

Defense:
on board (only in a boardset versus no board)
no board (commonly referred to as didn't make board)
no save (offense swept bid)
saved meld
set trump (here whether defense saved meld or not in the process is undifferentiated to the more important result)

(01-27-2016, 07:53 PM)rdwrites Wrote: [ -> ]Offense ...pulling more than 50... boardset points

I don't think I understand your thinking here.
Although our Glossary page offers "Board" as meaning 1.)Minimum of 20 Meld and 2.)Last Trick Bonus Points, I have only personally heard players use it in association with meld.  I am not sure that "boardset" is the most fitting term.
Maybe you are using "board" like a shortened form of "scoreboard"? but all outcomes impact the scoreboard.
For clarification, "pulling more than 50", are you playing triple deck?

I like the sentiment of "swept", however I think it may infer too much success.
If someone "sweeps the series" in baseball, we are talking about a complete "shutout" or "skunk"; some pinochle circles call pulling all 20 tricks a "Boston" IIRC.
In general, I think you are on the right track with a term that speaks strongly.

I love this opportunity to exchange creativity.  Our differences breed greatness.

Let's make sure we are considering each possibility.  I am not a statistician, so I have to pretend to think like one.  I am looking at the situations that result in teams experiencing a positive, zero, or negative score.

• Offense has no marriages (NEGATIVE), so Defense can do nothing (ZERO).
  
• Offense has <20 meld (NEGATIVE), Defense does not save (ZERO). *assuming meld amount is irrelevant, because it doesn't reflect Offense's skill, Defense's luck probably isn't very valuable to recognize.
  
• Offense has <20 meld (NEGATIVE), Defense saves (POSITIVE).
  
• Offense has >=20 meld but doesn't satisfy contract amount (NEGATIVE), Defense does not save (ZERO).
  
• Offense has >=20 meld but doesn't satisfy contract amount (NEGATIVE), Defense saves (POSITIVE).
  
• Offense satisfies contract (POSITIVE), Defense does not save (ZERO).
  
• Offense satisfies contract (POSITIVE), Defense saves (POSITIVE).
  

Did I miss any? am I framing this incorrectly?

making the board and boardset are the only terms I have ever heard and used. I had never thought about it, so many terms in pinochle are unique that it just came with the whole package. I would guess you're right that it is short for scoreboard (or scoresheet). When keeping score we would temporarily note the meld for a team if 20 or over and called this making the board.

There are three requirements for a player to be able to name trump: 1) have a marriage in the trump suit, 2) team has 20 or more meld, and 3) be able to pull enough points to match the difference between bid and team meld. Since there are 50 points (48 counters and 2 for last trick), requiring more than 50 is an immediate boardset.

I say all this from my experience. It is anecdotal. It may not be worth anything (ie terminology no one else uses), but was the terminology we used in college in the 70's in WV and then with others in Columbus Ohio after that. No one has ever used alternative terminology than making the board and boardset, save and set, etc.

I played a few games on Yahoo in late 90's but there was very little opportunity to really share thoughts, phrasings, etc.

Making the board does refer strictly to meld, at least 20 for the team. (I say this where meld points were similar to those here as I recall, I dealt with that some months back and altered the triple and quadruple points in my game to match one of the standards that was posted here.)

Boardset is being set without playing out the hand for one of the three requirements not met.

Given it is not familiar terminology to you all, certainly not going to be very good suggestions for a standard naming convention but yes I considered all the possible outcomes and suggested terms for them. It is methodical and covered all the possibilities up to one team winning.

I have your PPN page open in one tab and your discussion on it in another and will read it with interest over a period of days. I am just now returning to my web game programming after a break of a couple of months over holidays and working mandatory Saturdays quite a bit. I know from your posts you have similar obligations and still get a lot done.

By no means would I suggest unfamiliar terminology to you so just take it for anecdotal input. The swept bid of course as I mentioned I came up with along your lines of thinking. So hope that helps. It does describe that outcome well. The rest describe the various outcomes well and completely, but in "board" terms.

(01-28-2016, 01:50 AM)rdwrites Wrote: [ -> ]making the board and boardset are the only terms I have ever heard and used. I had never thought about it, so many terms in pinochle are unique that it just came with the whole package. I would guess you're right that it is short for scoreboard (or scoresheet). When keeping score we would temporarily note the meld for a team if 20 or over and called this making the board.

There are three requirements for a player to be able to name trump: 1) have a marriage in the trump suit, 2) team has 20 or more meld, and 3) be able to pull enough points to match the difference between bid and team meld. Since there are 50 points (48 counters and 2 for last trick), requiring more than 50 is an immediate boardset.

I say all this from my experience. It is anecdotal. It may not be worth anything (ie terminology no one else uses), but was the terminology we used in college in the 70's in WV and then with others in Columbus Ohio after that. No one has ever used alternative terminology than making the board and boardset, save and set, etc.

I played a few games on Yahoo in late 90's but there was very little opportunity to really share thoughts, phrasings, etc.

Making the board does refer strictly to meld, at least 20 for the team. (I say this where meld points were similar to those here as I recall, I dealt with that some months back and altered the triple and quadruple points in my game to match one of the standards that was posted here.)

Boardset is being set without playing out the hand for one of the three requirements not met.

Given it is not familiar terminology to you all, certainly not going to be very good suggestions for a standard naming convention but yes I considered all the possible outcomes and suggested terms for them. It is methodical and covered all the possibilities up to one team winning.

I have your PPN page open in one tab and your discussion on it in another and will read it with interest over a period of days. I am just now returning to my web game programming after a break of a couple of months over holidays and working mandatory Saturdays quite a bit. I know from your posts you have similar obligations and still get a lot done.

By no means would I suggest unfamiliar terminology to you so just take it for anecdotal input. The swept bid of course as I mentioned I came up with along your lines of thinking. So hope that helps. It does describe that outcome well. The rest describe the various outcomes well and completely, but in "board" terms.

I won't be harshing anyone's colloquialisms; there's gold in them there hills!

Thanks for clarifying what you mean about the out-of-reach bids, now I know what you mean.

Yahoo was certainly a difficult environment to share any intellectual conversations.

That PPN page may very well be removed at some point. It's just too much of a behemoth with too many rules to memorize.
Please check some of my most recent posts about a simpler pinochle notation structure, and discuss from that point.

I am still totally swamped with my work and family life, so unfortunately PP development will have to wait its turn.
I really would like to get the notation finalized at the very least, so that others can take the ball and run -- specifically Marya and any other game hosts that are interested.
By allowing others to use a universal system, game records can be stored, then when my time comes to write some software I will have plenty of data to play with.