10-18-2014, 03:23 PM
I don't want to put this into the general Bidding forum because this is specific to the very, very aberrant (by comparison to every other site we've found) meld chart used by the NPA.
The big factor is the value of the run, at 25. What does this do? I think I'd *have* to open 50 with this hand, in first seat:
Honestly, and I don't mean this rhetorically...what else *can* I do? I can't give meld, clearly; outside the run, I don't have any. I can't give even the 'loose' aces bid...5 aces is ok, but no meld kills that. And I can't afford to pass up the run; being able to name the run is a 40 point swing, 20 you score, and 20 they don't score. The other major aberration in the NPA meld chart (a single pino is worth 15) means my partner is *notably* more likely to be able to show 20, 30, even 40 meld, so I can effectively compete.
Thoughts on these points so far?
If this is indeed the case, then a major concept adjustment seems to be required. I think the bidding system has to have *2* bids that don't show meld, perhaps something like this:
50: shows this hand...a mediocre hand but with a run, and *denies* enough meld to take any other action. This bid is very sharply limited on the *upper* end; the bidder's partner should assume, at best, a weak 7 card run like
or so. This is a competitive bid, not a firm "I want to be captain" bid. If partner wants it, tho, recognize: this bid is denying the ability to show 20.
51: shows a real opener...probably an 8 card suit, or a big 2-suiter. Doesn't deny meld. Does make a firm attempt to be captain.
52 and beyond probably have to be straightforward meld bids; maybe there's room to squeeze in a 'power bid' like aces, maybe not. The other impact is on rebids, tho. Say the auction starts like this:
South 52
West pass
North 53
East 60
Say South has the hand above, but with 1 tweak: the is now the 
. Boom--a pinochle, for 15. That gave him an easy 20 meld bid on his first turn. What now?
I think South has to bid 65...same points as before. He's got 40 meld on his own, so it's not badly out of line. And if North does have a better run, well, N/S will have *at least* 42 meld if North wants to bid 70, and South does have tricks. I don't think the risk is all that high that South's 65 will get the partnership overboard.
Thoughts?
The big factor is the value of the run, at 25. What does this do? I think I'd *have* to open 50 with this hand, in first seat:
Honestly, and I don't mean this rhetorically...what else *can* I do? I can't give meld, clearly; outside the run, I don't have any. I can't give even the 'loose' aces bid...5 aces is ok, but no meld kills that. And I can't afford to pass up the run; being able to name the run is a 40 point swing, 20 you score, and 20 they don't score. The other major aberration in the NPA meld chart (a single pino is worth 15) means my partner is *notably* more likely to be able to show 20, 30, even 40 meld, so I can effectively compete.
Thoughts on these points so far?
If this is indeed the case, then a major concept adjustment seems to be required. I think the bidding system has to have *2* bids that don't show meld, perhaps something like this:
50: shows this hand...a mediocre hand but with a run, and *denies* enough meld to take any other action. This bid is very sharply limited on the *upper* end; the bidder's partner should assume, at best, a weak 7 card run like
or so. This is a competitive bid, not a firm "I want to be captain" bid. If partner wants it, tho, recognize: this bid is denying the ability to show 20.51: shows a real opener...probably an 8 card suit, or a big 2-suiter. Doesn't deny meld. Does make a firm attempt to be captain.
52 and beyond probably have to be straightforward meld bids; maybe there's room to squeeze in a 'power bid' like aces, maybe not. The other impact is on rebids, tho. Say the auction starts like this:
South 52
West pass
North 53
East 60
Say South has the hand above, but with 1 tweak: the
is now the . Boom--a pinochle, for 15. That gave him an easy 20 meld bid on his first turn. What now?I think South has to bid 65...same points as before. He's got 40 meld on his own, so it's not badly out of line. And if North does have a better run, well, N/S will have *at least* 42 meld if North wants to bid 70, and South does have tricks. I don't think the risk is all that high that South's 65 will get the partnership overboard.
Thoughts?