After reading
this thread which discusses the signal of playing queen then jack on RHO's double-ace lead in a suit to indicate possession of the remaining two aces, I have a general question. Rather than get that thread off on a tangent, I decided to open a new thread.
When I learned to play single-deck pinochle, one of the strategies I learned was to show your partner cards that were not melded if he called trump, and to try not to show your opponents cards that were melded if they called trump. I don't know if the same strategy is useful in double-deck pinochle, but if it is, there could be another reason for playing the queen ahead of the jack - namely, if you melded the queen (say, in a marriage or queens around) and don't want your opponents to see another card. (Obviously you'd play the queen on the first ace before knowing that RHO has the second ace.)
So the question is...when my opponents have declared trump, should I be trying to prevent them from seeing additional cards I haven't melded (within the greater context of not playing points on their tricks - so I would not, for example, play a king over a jack simply because they already saw it in my meld)?
Thanks.
Geez, I can see the logic behind what you are asking, but that's far too taxing for my memory.
I might be counting remaining aces in suits, and remaining trump cards, but trying to piece out where the remainder of the 80 card deck is based on melded cards and cards thrown... I'd need paper and a pencil... but I'd opt for a program!
Barring a run by someone else, there is no exposure of 10's which may or may not be helpful during the trick playing round.
I don't think I've had a case where I needed to know who had a K/Q/J and how many; so that I could make the right play.
On a smaller scale (not memorizing EVERYONE'S meld, but some meld is more memorable than others for its rarity), an average player might find a signal in this type of situation:
Partner showed triple pinochle, and threw a
at the opposition's first diamond trick.
Because Partner has at least one
, but opted to throw
, instead -- it's a signal.
*please note, I don't play J-Leadbacks, my family raised me on Q-Leadbacks. Discussion on this point has already been done in another thread, so I wish not to discuss it in this one.
As a final note, throwing a "queer" card to spite the opposition runs the risk of being a false signal to your partner. Tread lightly.
(10-14-2014, 06:15 PM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]Geez, I can see the logic behind what you are asking, but that's far too taxing for my memory.
I might be counting remaining aces in suits, and remaining trump cards, but trying to piece out where the remainder of the 80 card deck is based on melded cards and cards thrown... I'd need paper and a pencil... but I'd opt for a program!
I think this is more important in the single-deck version, since there are fewer cards and less meld laid down. It's not too hard in that case, but I can understand how it would be taxing in double-deck pinochle.
(10-14-2014, 06:15 PM)mickmackusa Wrote: [ -> ]As a final note, throwing a "queer" card to spite the opposition runs the risk of being a false signal to your partner. Tread lightly.
Yep, and another reason not to throw a queen first and hold a jack would be that if RHO plays a jack, I'd have to put a point on it. This is also a difference from single-deck pinochle (at least my family's version), where you don't have to play to win the trick in suits other than trump. (Obviously this wouldn't apply if I had
, but in general it may cause problems if one were to
always favor playing melded cards first when opponents are playing the hand.) I think I've made up my mind to generally stick to
then
regardless of what I showed for meld...unless it's an obvious signal that my partner can understand.
(10-14-2014, 05:59 PM)TigreLXIX Wrote: [ -> ]After reading this thread which discusses the signal of playing queen then jack on RHO's double-ace lead in a suit to indicate possession of the remaining two aces, I have a general question. Rather than get that thread off on a tangent, I decided to open a new thread.
When I learned to play single-deck pinochle, one of the strategies I learned was to show your partner cards that were not melded if he called trump, and to try not to show your opponents cards that were melded if they called trump. I don't know if the same strategy is useful in double-deck pinochle, but if it is, there could be another reason for playing the queen ahead of the jack - namely, if you melded the queen (say, in a marriage or queens around) and don't want your opponents to see another card. (Obviously you'd play the queen on the first ace before knowing that RHO has the second ace.)
So the question is...when my opponents have declared trump, should I be trying to prevent them from seeing additional cards I haven't melded (within the greater context of not playing points on their tricks - so I would not, for example, play a king over a jack simply because they already saw it in my meld)?
Thanks.
It rarely matters to declarer. You have to play *something* so your length is not well defined just because you conceal 1 card. The case for concealing is when you have shown several trump...a double marriage (maybe with extras like jacks or aces around) or a run. Now your known length is an issue to declarer; showing him a card he didn't know, marks your extra length.